An oft-quoted Biblical-ism..
September 13, 2006 at 9:43 pm (Life, my existence, Social)
As part of my daily inquiry into my soul, I came to question the oft-stated Biblical-ism off of Eph 4, “men need respect, women need love.” caveat: yes, i have the book “Love and Repect” by Eggerich, no I haven’t read it yet.
My first reaction was, “as if those are different things?”
My second reason was, “well, what IS respect??” I can think of people saying that cute phrase, but to work it out.. how does it look? I really was at a loss until Dictionary.com saved the day.
Out of the 11 definitions it lists, I’d say 2-3 are insightful & the others are either for another context, or too plain & common. Here’s the run-down:
#3. “esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.”
This is definatly a ‘good’ definition! & taking my own reaction as normative for all masculinity (that’s what’s great about blogs & not school papers– normalizing your experience is allowed, legit & preferred in blogs!!) ok, so where was I? Yes- my reaction to this definition is, “yes, I want to be considered worth something. & not just “who I am” but “what I do” and “my ideas” too! I’m a very idea-centric person (as is eric remus –shoutout to chicago!) I want to be heard & understood in/for/with/about my ideas. They’re deeply a part of me– heck, I even identify myself as a ‘thinker’! Conversely, I’m not so concerned with someone ‘respecting’(valuing/praising) me for something I do/say that I don’t identify with. “Mark, good job stacking those chairs after church.” Me: “Whatever. I’m more than a chair stacker.” Interestingly enough, this little example I give could even be considered un-respectful(yes, I intentionally didn’t use dis-), denigrating for not valuing the person for ways they know they are valuable. (yes, I know our value isn’t in what we do, but still, it is, since we’re apart of what we do)
#11.to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with: to respect a person’s privacy.
This is another helpful definition. If you see someone’s position as worth something, then you when you walk on their ‘intellectual turf’, you’ll be more concerned with sullying their carpet! When you come into valuable homes, you take your shoes off. Walk into any Japanese martial arts class as a student with your shoes on & be prepared for a whoopin’.
Likewise, if I make a decision, insofar as it’s my responsibility, don’t intrude on that decision. Become part of the decision-making process, sure, but when it’s said, it’s said. I ‘hate’ few things. I hate using the word ‘hate’. & I ‘hate’ people who use the word ‘hate’ too much. But if I genuinely ‘hate’ one thing, it’s managers who start their statements with, “I agree with you” but wind up undermining everything you just tried to communicate. “Yes, that’s great, now how about we do something completely different?! Yea!!” Now that is lack of respect. Actually, it’s straight-edge manipulation! Sadly, that is also corporate america. Any wonder why guys feel they have no strength??
So now for some more ‘common’ understandings from Dictionary.com:
5.the condition of being esteemed or honored: to be held in respect.
9. to hold in esteem or honor: I cannot respect a cheat.
10. to show regard or consideration for: to respect someone’s rights.
These are how we hear the word ‘respect’ used daily. Notice the exorbitant lack of clarification & depth these 3 hold. They presume we know what ‘esteem’, ‘honor’ and ‘regard’ are. Problem is, in america, we don’t. Yet I’m sure this is how people would define it. Note, I’m sure people couldn’t describe it. They might be able to point it out if they saw it. But I don’t think it’s common for americans to be able to say anything meaningful about respect.. telling a story “yeah, I saw it yesterday when..” or list it’s constituent elements.
So I hope I’ve clarified for you something about respect. I certainly have for me. Aahh.. for understanding. It’s a breath of fresh air in our hazy smog of a “culture”.
ckhnat said,
September 15, 2006 at 9:14 pm
Dude! Mark, you and I are officially now friends … with a post like that?!!
It deserves a link.
fadingdust said,
September 15, 2006 at 9:18 pm
ha! it’s been in me all along, just needed the right opportunity to come out
Carmen said,
September 16, 2006 at 6:45 pm
Mark, i have to concur with christine, even though i’ve never met ya! That is something my mind’s been stewing on for a while, we had a bible study down here on that passage, and the leader didn’t explain it very well…so thanks for that and the personal application, it clarifies things for me rather well.
Katie said,
September 20, 2006 at 12:01 pm
Mark, came by way of Christine and am very intrigued with your thoughts because I was thinking of the other side of the coin (us ladies that is). See I’m one of those “thinkers” and “doers”, yep lots of stuff for people to respect (wow that sounds fairly arrogant – so not trying to be arrogant, hang with me and I’ll get to my point). And yet when I hear the comments about what I do or what I say or my ideas, I’m very thankful for them and yet I want to yell “But do you like me? The me behind all that, the me that sometimes doesn’t do a darn thing or says really stupid stuff.” And that’s where I find the difference between love and respect and men and women. Wow, I think I’ve just experienced a moment of clarity. See I think that’s where you get the difference betwen women and men, we want value to be found in us, in who we are deep within ourselves. It’s great to hear that we are wonderful cooks, or servant hearted, or give great advice, but really we just want to be loved, to be valued beyond all that. And I’m not saying either is better, the love or the respect, and both have to be present for each person (male and female) but I think after reading your post and thinking about myself I had that “aha” moment. So, uh, now that I’ve written a novel in your comment and you don’t know me from Adam, I’ll go on my merry way. Thanks.
fadingdust said,
September 20, 2006 at 12:35 pm
katie- thanks for the comment! Remember: ramblings are fun, and fully allowed in blogs
I’m glad you brought out this distinction between what we do & who we are. I really steam-rolled it in my post. You descibed it well with, “It’s great to hear that we are wonderful cooks, or servant hearted, or give great advice, but really we just want to be loved, to be valued beyond all that.” Sure, I can understand that.
Here’s my thought & I wanna know how this fits/covers your thought or not: I guess I’d have to say that I too as a guy have this “accept me! love me!” voice screaming from inside me (though I fight it & deny it with self-confidence), but I’ve noticed that voice isn’t so loud or desparate as when I take the time each morning to acknowledge that voice & tell the One who loves me & accepts me more fully than anyone else about it & accept that acceptance.
Which, I could only presume is what you meant by, “I’m not saying either is better, the love or the respect, and both have to be present for each person (male and female).” Agreed. But is there a differentiation or not? I could imagine a ‘first concern’, a priority with women and ‘who i am’ and guys with ‘what i do’, but I still have to admit that a guy wants/needs (but fears to hear otherwise) that he’s loved/accepted for who he is too. Perhaps a guy can hear that, and its needed, but he doesn’t need to hear it as much as a woman?
Ok, now is where I’m soliciting help from all you readers out there!
Katie said,
September 20, 2006 at 2:29 pm
Hmmm good points, and I think I probably went very one sided on this. Again, not sure we can hash it all out in words to make it a nice little nugget to ingest and believe. Aha, you knew the word “faith” would find it’s way into this conversation.
Re-reading my comment, I’m thinking i had a lot of “me” in it, because in all honesty I love hearing that people like me for all that I am and do but sometimes I wonder if they would like me less if I wasn’t all those things, or if I wasn’t able to give them what they found so loveable. So I guess I’m looking for that grand thing called “unconditional love” and yet is that even possible from another person, or do we approach all relationships with some sort of conditions? And is that how God made us so that His love would be so set apart from the love we would find here on earth?
Here we go with another “aha” moment, are these two things – respect and love, the things that God worked into man and woman so that we would desire it from the other and yet we still yearn for that other more illusive thing . . . the love and dare I say the worth of God. So maybe this respect and love is just the pitiful human equivalent of what God desires to provide to us. For when you respect someone you give worth to them, worth to who they are, worth to what they do, worth to the natural abilities and gifts they possess. And when you love someone (love from man to woman that is) you give them the closest you can to unconditional love, you accept them for all their faults and love them all the same, you love them beyond what they can do for you but for who they are at thier very being.
Sorry, tangent from your original question, I think that respect and love are so intertwined and yet distinct to the genders and the way that man and woman differ. Man wants worth to his role as the leader, as the head, as the one responsible for the care of the wife and so by her respecting him she shows that she trusts him in all of that (i.e. loves him). And woman wants to be cared for, to be lead in the right way, to be protected and provided for, and so for a man to love her, to value her for who she is not what she does, he shows her his love for her (his respect for who she is and the value she – alone in herself – brings to his life).
So those are my 25 cents, because there were way too many words for this to be on 2 cents.